So Many Questions

SLGuin

US Midwest

Joined Sep 6 2020

Posted on October 4, 2020 @ 11:08 AM

Hello to all. New here and have been using the Tarsacci for only a few weeks, but it has quickly become the favorite detector ever. So many questions though.

Some have recommended very high ground balance numbers, even in mild ground, to unmask targets. It is commonly recommended to bump up 20-30 after ground balance by others. Saying commonly is misleading, there is a only a relatively small body of good info on Tarsacci in use and theory at best, and most of that is right here. Understanding is helpful to intelligent use, so it seems prudent to ask and see if there is something obscure being missed. Locally, there seems no advantage to doing either, and the detector seems fine at a simple ground grab.

High salt balance seems helpful to the point of being virtually set it and forget it (like black sand on) here. It is hard to understand why. Even so, these things just work. Low threshold and low sensitivity are also useful more often than not. Previously, running detectors hotter worked better, but not now and not with this. The Tarsacci seems just as deep and just as sensitive to small when run cooler. The only thing running hot seems to do here is make trash sound better. Running it a little closer to the lower limit seems to make it easier to recognize trash. Good targets sound good, and anything that sounds iffy usually is not. Possibly some things are being missed doing this but based on what is being pulled, that seems doubtful.

Even if it does not necessarily make sense in terms of ordinary detectors, it works like a charm. Mostly a person can hunt by ear and dig very little trash compared to most detectors this sensitive. That alone is a timesaver that allows much more ground to be covered per hunt. A cheap ($25) sling type harness was required to hunt land with the MDT, that epoxy coil out of water is heavy and unbalanced otherwise. It is a good compromise to get this kind of performance, there is no going back now.

S

Diggin Dude

Dig we must !
New York

Joined Aug 28 2020

Posted on October 4, 2020 @ 7:47 PM

I don’t have the answers for you, I to have questions similar to yours.   I am curious though what are your settings? I would like to know to try them out here in New York. What frequency, what is your salt number,  threshold, sensitivity?  Are you primarily inland hunting? Do you use discrimination? What is that number? Or do you like to run mixed mode?

Aaron

TOP MOD
Michigan

Joined May 20 2020

Posted on October 4, 2020 @ 10:34 PM

Stacy.....Yes, there are varied opinions on the Tarsacci, however as w any detector the most reliable advice can always be found from those w the experience. Between Keith, Dave and I, we have hundreds hours of Tarsacci time under our belts. The information on this site has been proven in the field. However, we are still learning as the Tarsacci is a new technology and there are still some things we have learned (and speculate over) but haven’t published yet as we’re not quite sure of and then there’s some things the user can only learn or understand w experience. Sooo, that being said, regarding a high offset GB low minerals.....I may have suggested that (earlier this year) in one of my water videos. However, I have discovered it doesn’t really help unless your in high iron ground (thanks Keith). If your in an area w A LOT of old iron, in low minerals,  try raising the GB from 750 to 800. Also do a salinity balance on the fringe of the iron...it works!  
Off setting the GB +15-20 to any ground are recommendations from Dimitar, and NOT from the armchair detectorists. It’s seems to be especially effective in hot ground. Regarding your high salt balance setting, I’ve given the recommended salt settings per kHz setting in my salinity balance video, I’ve found them very accurate, I can’t comment on what anyone else is claiming or doing. And yes, the Tarsacci is very powerful at lower settings. If your in hot ground, iron, trash ect. It’s best to run the gain lower, especially if your new to the machine, and are used to the sounds. And yes, running the threshold down to -9 w eliminate a lot of falsing in iron and according to Dimitar will not affect small low conductors. Running the threshold @ -9 is also good in places w high EMI w 18khz. A good rule of thumb is to listen those who HAVE a Tarsacci, put the time in, and know what their talking about and not speculating.... 

Digging Dude....all those questions have already been answered (especially recently!) on this forum....

SLGuin

US Midwest

Joined Sep 6 2020

Posted on October 5, 2020 @ 9:22 AM

Diggin, my settings are basic ones recommended here and work well in almost any ground for me. Salt on and set at 44, blacksand on, threshold -9, sensitivity 5 usually but less sometimes if it gets chatty, tracking off always. After trying virtually everything, these work well most of the time. Experimenting with ground balance, a basic grab works well most usually. No advantage has been found to higher ground balance, and the tones sound better at basic grab. Disc mode is my favorite by far, it took a while to get used to, but now is all I use. I set disc at +30, but am going to try hunting silver at -30 though I like it less to ear than +30.18Hz all the time, for some reason it sounds best to ear. After playing with everything extensively most of this is set it and forget it now unless some condition forces a little tweak. Using it this way, it is just ground grab and go. Most of the time this works perfectly with only an occasional retune of ground balance. In some ground, tweaking sensitivity down may be necessary, but little more than that is necessary most of the time. Running it cooler than most, it seems to behave better and no loss of targets, even very small ones is evident.

Aaron, all the recommendations have been helpful, a person should try everything and you can only try what you know about. It was Keith that first made me take a serious look at this, no one knows bad ground like him and that is the thing I wanted to do more than anything. Looking for everything to be found on the web, including a marathon read of that 80 page thread on Dankowski, made it a must try for me.

Happily, it turns out that the Tarsacci does exactly what it is supposed to, just like Dimitar says.. With only minor tweaks to the above settings and a ground grab it just hunts. I hunt by ear most of the time and look to the screen only if it sounds good enough to dig. I dig everything not obviously iron in search of gold jewelry, and of course there is some foil to be dug, but for as small as it will pull there is much less than most, and the small iron is less problematic than in other detectors this sensitive to small. It hunts bad ground very well just like this without a lot of fuss.

Aaron

TOP MOD
Michigan

Joined May 20 2020

Posted on October 5, 2020 @ 10:21 AM

Stacy, regarding Keith, agreed. He is one of the main reasons the Tarsacci has been gaining so much interest the last 6 months. There’s very few people as knowledgeable, experienced (and trustworthy) when it comes to detecting in BAD dirt as Keith. Getting him onboard was the best thing I could do for Tarsacci.

Dave.H

South West UK

Joined Jul 14 2020

Posted on October 5, 2020 @ 2:39 PM

Hi, SL Guin.

It sounds to me,,, that you've allready become pretty well accustomed to the tarsacci unit, after just a few weeks.

Im cuffed to here you quote "that's it's become your favourite detector ".... this is exactly how I feel about this machine here in the U.K.!

There are indeed loads of different,,, settings,,, tips,, advice,,, regards to the Tarsacci, but as you undoubtedly realise, all ground conditions vary,,,,, so basically work through the settings ,,,,, to find out that work best for you,... importantly,,, in your own environment!

High GB & Salinity numbers will / can help reduce iron signals, but this can also be detrimental if the ground is highly mineralised ,,, you may lose some depth!!!...... But,, there again it will/can improved the target separation within Iron!.

My take on the Tarsacci is,,,, experiment,, practice,, then experiment even more,, it's that kind of machine, .... this maybe obvious advice..... but just try testing on a buried coin in the ground,,,, then experiment,, with every setting available,,,, sounds very simple... but I believe the user can learn so much from this!.

All the best , and good luck!, I'm also really looking forward to hearing your further progress with the Tarsacci!

Best wishes,

Dave.

 

 

 

SLGuin

US Midwest

Joined Sep 6 2020

Posted on October 5, 2020 @ 4:26 PM

DaveH. Thanks for saying what the high ground balance was supposed to do. Tarsacci handles iron pretty well here for the most part, aluminum junk is the big pain. No way out of some of it, and some places are lousy with it. Pulltabs cannot be left, and some crown caps are a pain, but hunting in junk is an art form all it's own. Turning the machine down a bit (or a lot) is the best way I have come up with so far to make bad places huntable. It takes the shine off bad targets and good ones still sound strong. Some depth loss maybe, but a worthwhile trade in heavy trash. A smaller coil might be useful, but the stock coil is surprisingly good for it's size even in pretty dense junk. 

 

Keith Southern

MOD

Joined May 27 2020

Posted on October 5, 2020 @ 4:52 PM

One thing about the Tarsacci is you can set it wrong but the performance is not detrimental.Set it right and it shows off at times on things maksed by soil or metallic objects of lower DECAY rates.

 

In iron higher salt balances help to desensitize it to iron.

 

Even with salt balance off the machine is still handling bad soil.the transmission technology handles the soil.the salt is more of a notch window of something that is causing problems.not that it notches it out it just stabilizes the noise of rocks etc.it still sees though the stuff like rocks etc .The higher Salt around 44 seems to desensitize iron falsing and helps to unmask.Foils too.it seems the true metallic objects require high salt and the minerals lower salts.

 

Use the Tarsacci long enough and really get used to the sounds and what the settings do and you'll find YOUR sweet spot for YOUR area.Do not overdrive the unit.sens 7 and threshold -2 are my max modes for my soil and I know when to back off from there.

 

19Khz has the best reactivity in iron for unmasking and digging small targets. 12khz is a middle of the road for more depth on different conductors.9Khz starts to really like high coins/Tokens/large buttons, minnie balls at depth and gets less sensitive to small things you may not want.6Khz is for high conductors and deeeeeep big non ferrous.Should finda silver dollar extremely deep in challenging conditions.

Here's something to ponder a deep big high conductor in bad soil can wrap to iron or start to go to the iron grunt high tone bounce with maxed out ID numbers making you think its deep big iron falsing on machines built nowadays using higher freqs like 12khz and up and the soil even on lower freqs machines can still wrap to iron.the Tarsacci with its see through of soil and low freqs really likes deep bigger high stuff on the low freq.

One of the hardest things believe it or not is to dig big non ferrous around scattered big  ferrous.it can mimic large iron fasling.the Tarsacci is very good at not falsing on large iron and at same time locking with correct ID tone wise on big non ferrous on low freq.

 

The Tarsacci is simple to use but is so much different than a VLF.It's displaying behaviors that can be pulse quirky of a Pulse unit coupled with Discrimination so soem weird type pinging etc at times in same soil with a pulse will ping you have tomlearn to ignore the dead pan pings when the soil causes them just like on a Pulse..The tarsacci is also very good at placing ID's of target purity/mass(HMM sounds like DECAY does it not) more than simple VLF conductance.Noticed especially in the low end of ID's.It has less ID ranges than some machines but it can group and hold the ID better than a VLF.where as foil and say pistol balls will read the same on a VLF the Tarsacci can classify lead from foil in its ID.Should hold true for Gold too.yet I'm not a Jewlery hunter.

 

Keith

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SLGuin

US Midwest

Joined Sep 6 2020

Posted on October 5, 2020 @ 5:55 PM

Keith, 

Thanks so much for your great information. What I have been doing is trying everything by ear. Salt balance on sounds better to me for example. I have no idea why, but it does. Same with all the settings I use, it is what sounds good to me. As soon as the ground changes and it sounds not as good I change things looking for the sound I want. Good signals come through better sometimes or less chatty or more chatty sometimes if it is real quiet ground. It does not always make logical sense, but it sounds right. There is a lot to do with the Tarsacci, good control without excessive complexity, and it all shows on the screen at the same time so it is easy to keep track of. Even in very chatty junky ground, there is a certain clarity in good signals I am looking for and I play with it till I get as close as I can. Knowing what these settings actually do helps a lot.

Information like you present here really helps me to play it by ear.

I do not hunt very deep most of the time. I hunt really bad trash in places that get a lot of traffic, like modern picnic grounds and the little party ground around sports fields. The aluminum is killer but most of the good targets are recent and not that deep. Every little edge, any little thing to try that can be found helps. 

Thanks

Aaron

TOP MOD
Michigan

Joined May 20 2020

Posted on October 5, 2020 @ 5:59 PM

Yep, the Tarsacci is very forgiving on the settings, and makes it easier on the learning curve for the beginner. Once you get a good handle on it, and confidence is high start investigating w the other modes and settings. Yeah Keith. I’d like to see the low conductor range opened up more for jewelry hunting, however I can’t complain all the gold I found this year.

 

Aaron

SLGuin

US Midwest

Joined Sep 6 2020

Posted on October 5, 2020 @ 7:25 PM

Aaron,

That forgiving nature of the detector shows the power of the basic architecture for sure. What do you use as metric to determine optimal from there? What would you do in high trash where there are a lot of signals to deal with in the aluminum range which happens to also be the gold range. There are some places where it is just too much to dig it all, so I pick the best of them, but is there a better way?

There are a lot of aluminum signals that have to be dug hunting jewelry. Just no getting around it. The set up I use is meant to weaken trash signals and it certainly does. The Tarsacci in general is great for that in general. Is there a place to go with it from there?

Today for example. I went to a volleyball complex I check often. It was clean as a whistle even running hot (Thresh -3, Sens7). A struggle just to find half a rotted pull tab and one piece of junk jewelry. Went into the grass where there are picnic tables and it was target overload. Everywhere lots of pull tabs and crown caps and plain old junk. Dropped sens to 3, thresh to -9 to get it to run stable, and was able to find a good handful of clad, 1 ring, 1 bracelet, one chain with pendant.  Not great gobs of gold, but finds at a place I would have left before. Even being choosy it averaged about 3 trash to 1 good. That is the best I can do in trash that heavy. Is there a better way? There was one target in all that trash that was way too big to be anything good, yet it had that sound. Just under the grass was a lovely enameled brass bracelet my daughter now loves. It was only the sound, everything else said junk.

This is the first detector in 40 years that had questions like these even occur to me. It is like the power of the thing gives freedom to take on what might have seemed too much before. The curse of the more.

S

Keith Southern

MOD

Joined May 27 2020

Posted on October 5, 2020 @ 8:45 PM

SL it sounds like your honing in on the quality of the signal report and that's the biggest thing to get accustom too.it makes playing with settings more talkative in terms of did a setting make it worse or better from clean audio response.

 

One thing for sure in modern trash if you want to coin shoot is stay on the high tone tight hits.zincs are mid tone.copper and dimes are high tone.and if you want to jewelry hunt trash for the small gold watch the screen for the low numbers like below 10 or so.foil can be neutralized or sound very ratty.foil is the area the Jewelry hunter gives up hunting for smaller gold.a VLF that likes small gold slams foil.like paper foil even.the tarsacci though and Ill mention it again can DECAY the foil with salt invoked,but still stay on the more solid things low like gold jewelry.It SHOULD but I admit I dont do it cause I hunt more older sites sans foil usually.And if i go into modern trash 9 times out of 10 Im just after coins.Silver coins.

Dont forget also you can do a 5 point notch for the pulltabs in the area.That is set it for pulltab number and it takes two points away also above and below the number.And you dont have to set it dead on the exact number.say a pulltab is a certain type repeatedly coming up but its close to say a indian head number or 5 dollar gold goin ??.you can over shoot or under shoot the setting to just clip the pulltab and still signal clean on something of value one digit from the pulltab.That is have the 5 point spread include the troublesome target in the last digit of the spread.that will make the pulltab target more clippy but something a point above or 2 will get clean hits.The notching is interesting for sure.I would like to see more notching at some point like even say click on zero and drag it to wherever you like and take out like large swaths of ID..One of the things I like to do with a machine at times in trashy areas is just nab Silver like old 1950s yards and old defunct baseball bleacher areas full of trash.Ill take T2 set disc on 80 and just see how much silver/copper coins I can get. and with the Tarsaccis ability to unmask it ought to be amazing at just silver sniping .or have a preloaded coin mode.accept nickles and copper pennys up.You can do it now on Tarsacci with the tones for silver nabbing but its fun to go silent at times and get what you can get easier noise free..really fun!!

 

Yes the purer the metal the better the Tarsacci hits it ID Tone stable wise.alloyed metals can sound different.One thing neat on the Tarsacci also is crumpled up aluminum even big like crushed cans sounds warbly.I run into those alot in old house sites in the woods relic hunting.Deer hunters hang around those sites and leave cans.Jsut last week I was ona site 9khz and beer cans were back filled from loggers.and they hada hard hit but had a warble flutter to them were as good brass and lead was jsut clean.I got to where i could tell the cans and I was right.even a deep pie pan was noticable weird sounding.and this was in heavy iron .but then coins and brass stuff just sounded clean and round.had an excellent rise and fall in unison of audio.the aluminum just came in warbly got scratch almost dead in middle and then ended warbly.Even though the ID was locking about 25 26 or so on them.

 

After a person has a  couple hundred hours of use I may share something else on how I LIKE  to run it  but till a user gets confident in the Tarsacci I dont want to get someone on a wild goose chase .But Mixed mode can really talk to you on target sizes and composition on a next level like it should.even in heavy iron it is doable but till a person gets the disc mode under his belt I dont advise.it sets up different in terms of where you set disc at.

 

Learning = Disc mode all the time while learning set disc at -30 for learning.best to learn unit hearing it all.

Advanced = Mixed mode set disc on 0.you dont need to hear the iron grunt the all metal channel tells you its iron already if high tones dont report....wah sound alone is iron.no need to add iron tone on too....Wah-Beep-Wah not iron.Waaaaaaaaaah-Beep-Waaaaaaaaaah yeah its large iron falsing.also tells you depth those faint high Beeps in mixed mode will be with a faint Wah approach.you know its deep.A Beep with no Wah approach is either atmospheric or soil generated and wont usually coincide with a Wah approach on the all metal side.really helps to cut down on the false high tones that stop you at times.you learn to ignore them if the all metal channel is not there hitting before a ping.

 

 

 

Keith

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SLGuin

US Midwest

Joined Sep 6 2020

Posted on October 5, 2020 @ 9:20 PM

Keth,

Thank you so much for this excellent information. Exactly the sort of thing I need.

As of yet I have not notched pull tabs, but some days I would like to. The Tarsacci makes for a lot less foil digging up front and with a little ear training only large or thick foil need be dug. The pull tabs and crown caps seem part of the deal no matter what, though some caps can be rejected by sound. The occasional gold ring coming through really reminds a person what good sounds like though. A person needs a little reminder sometimes not to try and push signals into being what they are not. It comes down to hunting by ear in trashy ground for me, and that improves a tiny bit each day. At the moment I look for really good tones not obviously iron most of the time, but am going to try all that stuff you just mentioned.

Thanks

S

 

Diggin Dude

Dig we must !
New York

Joined Aug 28 2020

Posted on October 7, 2020 @ 9:30 AM

I just want to thank everyone for replying to SL's thread. Lots of great information I will be applying.   Thank SL