Interview With Dimitar Gargov Part #2

Aaron

TOP MOD
Michigan

Joined May 20 2020

Posted on June 30, 2020 @ 1:49 AM

 

In part 1, we discussed how Dimitar got into metal detecting and designing detectors, his origins with Fisher, and the Tarsacci’s Salinity and Ground Balance features. In part 2, we talk more about the Tarsacci’s unique MDT technology. However, as you’ll see, just like any other inventor, Dimitar is very cautious when discussing his “intellectual property” and,,,he is one hard “egg” to crack!

 

Aaron - Okay, so how about we talk a little about the “roots of the technology” of Tarsacci?

 

Dimitar - Well, the “roots of the technology” is an ongoing problem and not related to Fisher or any other companies cause, it’s different. And this is why it is in Patent Pending, the patent is applied, and I’m just waiting when it will be released. The patent is applied here in the US and in Europe.

 

Aaron - You’ve applied for International Patent? Man,,that’s EXPENSIVE!

 

Dimitar - But, I have to! This is the know-how and if you don’t do that, you don’t invest in that direction everyone can steal it. Sure, we are talking about high expenses, but this also has to be added into the unit cost.

 

Keith - Yes!

 

Dimitar - And somehow, I need to get a reimbursement for my investment. But, it’s a hobby and I enjoy it and when this will happen, I do not know....Ha! But, I’m enjoying detecting, I enjoy designing metal detectors, I enjoy solving these challenges.

 

Aaron - It’s very unique to find a metal detecting engineer who ALSO enjoys detecting, you know?

 

Keith - Yes that’s rare, that’s REALLY rare!

 

Dimitar - And...I’m LISTENING to the community! I detect for myself and every one of us has a different style, EVERYONE. There’s no universal recipe, you can give guidance, but to give magic settings to cover every place, such a thing does not exist. This is why I always advise the customers; you have initial settings which will help you to start. Once you understand the machine, start learning and listening to it, you’ll find your own way of detecting.

 

Aaron - Yes, agreed. Keith and I were just discussing something very similar, in regard to learning the Tarsacci. Before I sent him the unit, I told him: “Now listen, when I first started using this machine, I really didn’t like it! It’s totally different than anything I’ve ever used. Took me 30-40 hours until I REALLY started to enjoy using it! But, since you’re a better hunter than me you’ll probably figure it out A LOT sooner.” Then today, Keith tells me: “Yeah, you know what? I didn’t start figuring out what was going on with that machine until about a good 40 hours!

 

Dimitar - HA! HA!

 

Keith - Well that’s cause the audio is so much different than what I’m used to! It has a compressed audio....

 

Dimitar - Yeah!

 

Keith - But if you listen inside that compression, THERE’S A LOT GOING ON.

 

Dimitar - Speaking about that compression...

 

Keith - There’s A LOT of “response” going on in that BEEP.

 

Dimitar - That’s correct, and there’s a reason for that! Let’s say, uh, a lot of times people ask: “how do you set up your threshold”? In the old days, when you had the pure analog technology, you always set up your threshold to the sound level. In this way you start to hear the very weak signals, and it’s up to the operator to decide, hmmm...is that a signal, is that a noise, or whatever. And a lot of times...you just guess. And at the same time, when you have a very shallow target, because of that, the sound level is very high, and it blows your ears. This is why I started thinking, well it doesn’t matter if you have a shallow target or a deep target, you have to be able to hear both targets, with a reasonable, comfortable sound level. And this is why I compressed the sound, for that reason. And this not by accident, it’s for a purpose.

 

Keith - Yeah, I see it now, and it makes sense. And, to be honest with you, when I first ran it, I thought: “man, Dimitar don’t know what he’s doing!”

 

Dimitar & Aaron- HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

Aaron - Same with me, I felt EXACTLY the same way! I said to myself what in the world is going on with these sounds and I can’t believe I bought this thing!

 

Dimitar & Keith - HAHAHAHAHAHAH!

 

Aaron - However, I was determined to learn that machine. When I went hunting, I only brought the Tarsacci. So that way, If I got tempted to quit and got frustrated, I wouldn’t go back to the car and grab the Equinox. So, it was only by sticking with it, learning the sounds and the settings I started feeling comfortable with it. Then after a few hours I really started noticing things, for example, I was hardly ever digging small foil anymore. That’s a BIG plus for a park hunter, especially if you want to find small gold.

 

Dimitar - Large foil you will detect, because large foil falls in the category of low conductor target and the small foil into very low conductor target.

 

Aaron - And that’s fine. If I have to dig a large foil once in a while no big deal.

 

Dimitar - And that is just the physics, we cannot invent new physics! LOL!

 

Aaron - Now the Tarsacci’s small foil rejection was the main reason that I kept using it in the park, especially when I found my first piece of gold with it. This was a 18kt earring, in the foil range, I wouldn’t have normally dug with the Equinox, however the Tarsacci banged on it quite hard!

 

Dimitar - Yes, and this can be demonstrated quite easily. I sent Aaron a small cardboard, about 6” x 2” and I had glued very small foil pieces on it. When you do the Salinity Balance to this cardboard, the foil disappears. But, at the same time you can throw in any target you like, doesn’t matter, behind this foil the detector will detect it because the foil does not exist anymore to this detector.

 

Keith - Is that technology....you say, it’s not a pulse and it’s not a VLF...but, it does a lot of things like a pulse machine does....

 

Dimitar - Ahhh...yes, yes you can say that! Heh, heh...But it is NOT a pulse induction machine!

 

Keith – Because, I can take a pulse induction machine and turn the delay up on it, and get rid of foil...

 

Dimitar - Yes....

 

Keith - And it will give some kind of see-through...with the targets under it, but....yours does it better. But,,,I don’t understand your technology.

 

Dimitar - Heh heh heh!

 

Keith - Is it pulse in a frequency or is it, or is it like a VLF frequency or is it...

 

Dimitar - It’s a continuous...it’s not a pulse, it’s not a VLF. I’m taking advantage of both technologies and...it’s the way and how the signal is manipulated, how I transmit the signal, and a combination of both.

 

Keith - It has some pulse behaviors to it!

 

Dimitar - Ah....yes, and there are a lot of things...

 

Keith - Even when the ground feeds back and stuff, it runs like a pulse, in my ground...

 

Dimitar - Yes!

 

Keith - you get a little bit of ringing going on,,,

 

Dimitar- LOL!

 

Keith - It acts just like a pulse a lot of the times!

 

Dimitar - Yes!

 

Keith - I know it ain’t a pulse, but acts like a pulse...A LOT!

 

Dimitar - Ah,,,the main driver for this technology was the ability to ignore simultaneously mineralized ground and...salt -alkaline mediums, fertilized ground or nonmagnetic hot rocks like coke, natural graphite .. .

 

Keith - I think when you put mineral in the mix, the target sounds better. Better than the target lying on the top of the soil. For example, sometimes when you take the target out of the ground, it might be a buck shot or a pistol ball, sounds better in the soil. Once you get it out,,,I can still hear it, but it don’t sound as good as it did in the ground...

 

Dimitar - Yes! Because especially in your area, your conditions, the ground is mineralized, and this mineralized ground actually helps you enhance the signal, this is why.

 

Keith - Yeah, hmm. That’s crazy!

 

Dimitar - LOL!

 

Keith - But with a VLF, you know...your fortunate to hear stuff like that in my soil, and small targets and,,,,that one just BANGS on them, you know? But a VLF in my soil, I don’t ever dig small stuff. I mean, I dig small stuff but once I get in bad dirt, I don’t ever dig little buck shot, pistol caps and things like that, I just don’t dig them. I know they’re there, just can’t dig them. But, the Tarsacci finds them, when I go to those places, it finds all sorts of other small targets. It doesn’t matter the frequency I’m on neither, I could be on 6.4kHz, and it STILL hear little small targets...

 

Dimitar - Yes.

 

Keith - It doesn’t act like a VLF doing that...a VLF, usually needs to be up on 20kHz...to hear a 1” deep small target, you know? But the Tarsacci could be up on 6.4kHz, and hear a 6” deep small target, it doesn’t behave like a VLF!

 

Dimitar - No, because it’s not a VLF! LOL!

 

Keith - So are those REAL frequencies?

 

Dimitar - Ah,,,they are.....LOL!

 

Keith & Aaron - LOL!

 

Dimitar - And there’s a reason for that, because, again I’m a relic hunter. In Bulgaria and in Europe, the silver coins are VERY desirable! And a lot of times, the silver coins are more expensive than gold coins.

 

Keith - Oh yeah!

 

Dimitar - This is why the 6.4 kHz is introduced, to be able to detect large silver coins. 9 & 12kHz, they are designed to handle, high to mid conductors like relics, and what I’ve found out is 12kHz works really well in red clay. I like it better than 18kHz, especially in the area where I am. And the 18kHz, it’s there just to be able to detect very small, fine targets.

 

Keith - Hmm, yeah the 18kHz, I thought that once you go up from 6.4, to 9 & 12, there’s a slightly higher pitch in the frequency of the target too...

 

Dimitar- Yes!

 

Keith- Yeah, and if your listening really close, the pitch of the frequency go’s up as the frequency go’s up....

 

Dimitar- And also, when you go in the higher frequencies, it actually increases your I.D. capabilities, for the lower conductor targets. This is how it helps you, it’s a trade-off.

 

Keith- Now on the I.D., I noticed when it’s,,,like when I have a bunch of nails in the ground...

 

Dimitar- Uh huh..

 

Keith - ...and I have a target in there, like a cuff button.

 

Dimitar - Yes.

 

Keith - With a VLF detector, I will get what I call “target averaging”. Where I’ll get 5 nails and a cuff button, but the cuff button may read 25 on a I.D. machine...

 

Dimitar - Yes.

 

Keith- ...but the VLF platform, the nails will pull that down, to say a 10 or a 15 I.D.

 

Dimitar - Yes.

 

Keith - But I’ve noticed on the Tarsacci, even with those nails on top of say, the button, the I.D. is almost exactly the same, as the button by itself.

 

Dimitar - The reason for that it’s....again, I like to hear everything when I detect.

 

Keith - Yep!

 

Dimitar - I don’t like the machine to average too much. And I like the machine to be FAST! And even you can try, and this machine has...an instantaneous response time. What this means is, if you have a big target, and you put this target very close to the loop. This is how you test the response: You swing the loop over this big target, and you immediately go over a deep target, and you can hear it, immediately!

 

Keith - Yes.

 

Dimitar -For detectors with slow response time, If you have this big signal, it will mask the weaker signal, but with Tarsacci , you have an immediate response and hear both signals. And this is why the detector is very fast!

 

Keith - Yeah I noticed that, I can lay a piece of plow point or piece of big iron down, and I can hear a small target laying right next to it.

 

Dimitar - Yes.

 

Keith - I don’t know if there’s any other machine that does that?

 

Dimitar - And this is thanks to this fast response time!

 

Keith - Even when the coil is engulfed in iron or like when a big piece of iron is under the coil at the same time, it can still hit the small target right beside it.

 

Dimitar - Yes, and there’s much more going on in the brain of this machine, and...

 

Keith - Awe yeah, you can tell, I can tell, it’s no joke! Yeah, there’s something going on! Now the VLF can’t do that. The VLF would get swamped by that large iron target in the “halo” off of it, and not being able to see that. I don’t care how fast the machine is! You know like a DEUS, it still can’t do it, it’s too swamped by the iron signal, it’s shutting the coil down.

 

Dimitar - Yeah.

 

Keith- I can’t shut that coil down!

 

Dimitar - But again, there are limitations, you can’t expect this to happen always! Another thing that is true and you’ll discover; let’s say if you have pieces from a very heavily rusted iron. For example: peace of old tin roof or peace of iron seating for a long time on the salty beach. Now this is how I discovered, I had a customer on the beach, and he had a different brand metal detector. We started detecting, at one point he said: “I have a very large target”, the sound of the target was loud, and very strong. So, I passed the Tarsacci coil over his target and I could hardly hear it, and told him: “No, this is nothing.” So, we began debating, and I said: “Let’s dig it!” And we dug it, and it turned out to be a big piece of iron, which was very heavily rusted. The iron was starting to disintegrate, the sand around it looked like red clay from the rust. So, what the Salinity Balance does is helps you to see through this mediums and detect good targets. If it’s solid iron, none of the machines will see the target behind it.

 

Keith - Yep, there’s something going on there! It sees through iron...not all iron, but certain types of iron it sees through. Like the oxide iron...

 

Dimitar - The rusted the better!

 

Keith- Yeah!

 

Aaron - I’ve found working in my 150yr old site that it works the best with the heavily oxidized, decomposing iron the best.

 

Dimitar - Yes, that’s correct! So, when you have moisture in the ground and you mix it with all this stuff, it looks like Georgia dirt, this is what happens.

 

Keith & Dimitar - LOL!

 

Dimitar - This is what it is, you have a lot iron oxide, A LOT of iron oxide in your dirt and unfortunately....this is probably what 70% of the world is like. It’s normal.

 

Keith - Oh yeah...iron ore is everywhere.

 

Aaron- So since you are originally from Bulgaria, an area that has some of the oldest artifacts in the ground, especially the thin hammered coins that are highly sought after.

 

Dimitar - Yes.

 

Aaron - Was the Tarsacci designed especially with those coins in mind?

 

Dimitar - When you design a detector, let’s say you have a group of targets, doesn’t matter new or old targets, to the detector it’s a target. And if the thin small hammered coins are desirable targets, you design the detector to be able to detect these coins. And since there are plenty of these types of targets, this is why you have 18 and 12 kHz, and you can find these targets at greater depth. Now, since we’re talking about the Salinity Balance, in England, coke is a big problem. And a lot people may say, “yes, I understand what coke is, but I never dig a piece of coke”, which is not true. And this is a big problem, you see it on the forums, everyone talks about it. And sure, some of the detectors you can mask the coke, I’m not talking about anything else, you’ll not see, you’ll not detect the coke. But...once you have a target behind it...

 

Keith- It’s gone...

 

Dimitar- Yes, it’s a different story.

 

Aaron- Right.

 

Keith - Yeah, it’s gone and the targets gone too!

 

Dimitar - Yeah, and this is why, thanks to the Salinity Balance and this new technology, this is why this detector works like that.

 

In part #3, we will discuss about the TARSACCI’s world class build quality, fast ground balance and 4 different frequencies and much, much more!

Thanks!

Aaron

walker1200

NY

Joined Jun 26 2020

Posted on June 30, 2020 @ 11:46 AM

Guys, 

Thank you for transcribing the second interview!  This information is really helpful in learning about the MDT 8000! 

I am looking forward to part 3!  =]

 

-Kerry

Aaron

TOP MOD
Michigan

Joined May 20 2020

Posted on July 1, 2020 @ 12:25 AM

Thank you Kerry, we appreciate it!

Aaron

Cal_Cobra

Hunting the Western Frontier, one site at a time....
Left Coast

Joined Jun 17 2020

Posted on July 1, 2020 @ 1:28 AM

Thanks for posting Part#2, enjoying the read very much.

I particularly enjoy that most of the context is more relic hunting related vs beach hunting 👍

George

The Original Buttondigger since 1969
Maidens, Virginia

Joined Jun 9 2020

Posted on July 1, 2020 @ 2:30 AM

I enjoyed the interview. Keith and I share the same red clay . Having used the AKA brand the sounds were very familiar. 12kHz is the best general relic hunting frequency. in my opinion after 51 years of detecting. Our iron bedrock actually is the biggest problem we face here near Culpeper Va. No problem with the Tarsacci. Every wonder why you dig black silver coins inland? Only salinity in the soil or a fire can cause that. The extra ground balances are key in my ground. I was able early on using the Coinstrike to better understand that a threshold is more then just a backround hum to hear deeper targets. You had to find the perfect balance with the sensitivity.. 525 was the magic number. This is why I like Engineers from Bulgaria. They can design a detector that works well in minerals.

Aaron

TOP MOD
Michigan

Joined May 20 2020

Posted on July 1, 2020 @ 6:57 AM

  Brian - Thanks! There’s more relic talk coming....

George- It’s great to hear you’ve got a handle on the Tarsacci in that BAD Culpeper ground you call dirt! LOL It doesn’t get much worse than that here in the US. 
Also, it says a lot about your skill level to be able tune the Tarsacci to that BAD mineralization!

 

Aaron

 

 

Bartosz

Poland

Joined May 8 2021

Posted on May 17, 2021 @ 1:04 AM

Hello!

It's so exciting to read this interview... It makes me underdtand Tarsacci much better.

I have to ask, as it's been so long time since this part - what about the next one?!

I have to read it!

Aaron

TOP MOD
Michigan

Joined May 20 2020

Posted on May 25, 2021 @ 12:50 PM

Hi Bartoz,

Thanks.

Sorry, but it takes a lot of time to transcribe from audio to the computer, HOURS!

If there was more interest and demand for part 3 I would be motivated to put that time in.....

Aaron